So, I’m the PJ fan who thinks they are rock royalty. Nirvana was great but didn’t hit me in the chest like PJ. I’ve seen 17 shows (a drop compared to my friends in the 100 club), and always feel kinship with the fans and the band. Singing together is the magic of collective effervescence, see link below, and is the reason I love live music so much. These guys just seem to foster it better than most. Btw, sending this article to another PJ fan who is also a BIG Pavement fan. I’m sure he’ll have plenty to add. 😎🎶🤘🏻
I know very little about Pavement, but as I read this it reminded me of one of my favorites, The Replacements. Another band that should have been bigger but for their own self sabotage.
And who are we kidding Will….the PJ thing is mostly due to Eddie being a huge Cubs fan. :)
"...with everyone around me singing along to each song"
I've seen PJ a few times over the years and this never fails to surprise me. Every fan, singing along to every song. I'm sure there are other shows where this happens, but I haven't been to one yet.
Big Pavement fan, saw them on the first night of most recent reunion tour, but saying Smashing Pumpkins are "infinitely worse" is a take so bad that it comes across as trolling lol.
> It was more, as the movie makes clear, that he found the actual act of performance, of salesmanship, of promotion, so repellant that he would rather have people not listen to his band at all than ever make it look like he would actually want them to.
There's a certain irony in the way this itself became an act of performance. I've never really understood acts that performatively emphasize their disinterest in popularity. Just, like, be a recluse and make music away from the spotlight if that's what you want! Plenty of people have pulled that off, especially pre-social media!
Art is subjective. All that matters is what moves you. Certain things, like being a little too ambitious, can turn you off and poison the well. I get it.
I never found that to be the case with Pearl Jam. They love what they do and they’re a bunch of nice guys.
When they started to get married and have kids, they relaxed and learned to enjoy their success. The angst left and the shows became more joyful.
I also think they feel a responsibility to keep all their people (staff, touring, merch) employed. And as long as they still enjoy it, why not?
I recently came to a realisation The easiest way to measure the dividing line between Gen X and Millennials is that Gen X is the generation that believed selling out was the greatest crime imaginable and Millennials are the generation that believes that getting the opportunity to sell out is the goal of life
To very loosely paraphrase Scott Fitzgerald, "Tis wise to love bands that are seemingly opposite, while still retaining the ability to compellingly write about each them while also shaking your butt." Good stuff.
If you are looking for a new rubric, maybe consider episode names of The Wonder Years? Love the newsletter. One of the things I look forward to every week. Keep it up!
EIU grad here, around your age, very familiar with Mattoon. All that to say, in general, our tastes align.
It's very easy to take the Pumpkins and PJ's output the last 20+ years and surmise they are old news, but at their peaks (1991-1998ish), it's honestly libel on your part that you think Pavement held a candle to either of these bands. You are trying way too hard to be contrarian here.
FWIW, I llke all 3 bands! Which is funny because my first exposure to Pavement was No Alternative where they are slagging on SP (who are also on that album).
I feel like I bought PJ Ten at the Best Buy in Mattoon. There used to be one there, right??
There was a band that I knew back around that same time, called The Immortal Winos of Soul. A Detroit band that could have been big, but never got past their own personal pursuits. Not for the same, self-destructive ways as Pavement, but because they each wanted something different. Still, a bunch of good guys.
The anti-try hard element of our generation is so relatable and so exhausting but every time I see an influencer I think, "Shit, we were right."
I think ... this very same thing.
Right on.
So, I’m the PJ fan who thinks they are rock royalty. Nirvana was great but didn’t hit me in the chest like PJ. I’ve seen 17 shows (a drop compared to my friends in the 100 club), and always feel kinship with the fans and the band. Singing together is the magic of collective effervescence, see link below, and is the reason I love live music so much. These guys just seem to foster it better than most. Btw, sending this article to another PJ fan who is also a BIG Pavement fan. I’m sure he’ll have plenty to add. 😎🎶🤘🏻
https://www.herizonmusic.com/p/vr-collective-effervescence?utm_source=publication-search
Go Tigers. Al Kaline was my baseball hero when I was a kid. Had a rifle arm and the smoothest swing. Yes, I’m pretty old.
I know very little about Pavement, but as I read this it reminded me of one of my favorites, The Replacements. Another band that should have been bigger but for their own self sabotage.
And who are we kidding Will….the PJ thing is mostly due to Eddie being a huge Cubs fan. :)
I will say his Cubs song does very much make my eye twitch.
Jay Farrar could probably write a really sad Cardinal song this year.
"...with everyone around me singing along to each song"
I've seen PJ a few times over the years and this never fails to surprise me. Every fan, singing along to every song. I'm sure there are other shows where this happens, but I haven't been to one yet.
Go see Bruce!
I’d love to! He came this way on the last tour, but I wasn’t able to make it work.
Big Pavement fan, saw them on the first night of most recent reunion tour, but saying Smashing Pumpkins are "infinitely worse" is a take so bad that it comes across as trolling lol.
Smashing Pumpkins were quite good, but I'm a lowly Millennial. Maybe the Cool Kid Gen Xers like Will have deemed them unworthy of a fair appraisal.
Gish was good! And then Billy Corgan revealed himself to be ... Billy Corgan.
I sound like a boring dullard saying this, but I love Mellon Collie.
I would find it hard not to be bitter if I were Nastanovich when things could obviously been different for him and the band.
I ... understand this.
Man, I got some bad news for you about Kurt if you thought he never wanted to be big…
> It was more, as the movie makes clear, that he found the actual act of performance, of salesmanship, of promotion, so repellant that he would rather have people not listen to his band at all than ever make it look like he would actually want them to.
There's a certain irony in the way this itself became an act of performance. I've never really understood acts that performatively emphasize their disinterest in popularity. Just, like, be a recluse and make music away from the spotlight if that's what you want! Plenty of people have pulled that off, especially pre-social media!
Anyway, dying to see the Pavement movie.
Just played "Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain" the other day. Still sounds great.
Art is subjective. All that matters is what moves you. Certain things, like being a little too ambitious, can turn you off and poison the well. I get it.
I never found that to be the case with Pearl Jam. They love what they do and they’re a bunch of nice guys.
When they started to get married and have kids, they relaxed and learned to enjoy their success. The angst left and the shows became more joyful.
I also think they feel a responsibility to keep all their people (staff, touring, merch) employed. And as long as they still enjoy it, why not?
Also, their latest album is very good.
I recently came to a realisation The easiest way to measure the dividing line between Gen X and Millennials is that Gen X is the generation that believed selling out was the greatest crime imaginable and Millennials are the generation that believes that getting the opportunity to sell out is the goal of life
To very loosely paraphrase Scott Fitzgerald, "Tis wise to love bands that are seemingly opposite, while still retaining the ability to compellingly write about each them while also shaking your butt." Good stuff.
Ha, thank you for this, sir. A *somewhat* loose paraphrase, but a lovely one nevertheless.
If you are looking for a new rubric, maybe consider episode names of The Wonder Years? Love the newsletter. One of the things I look forward to every week. Keep it up!
I was also thinking Breaking Bad or Better Call Saul. But I'm pretty torn!
EIU grad here, around your age, very familiar with Mattoon. All that to say, in general, our tastes align.
It's very easy to take the Pumpkins and PJ's output the last 20+ years and surmise they are old news, but at their peaks (1991-1998ish), it's honestly libel on your part that you think Pavement held a candle to either of these bands. You are trying way too hard to be contrarian here.
Ha, definitely not contrarian! But I'm trying to praise PJ here! (Perhaps more faintly than some might like.)
FWIW, I llke all 3 bands! Which is funny because my first exposure to Pavement was No Alternative where they are slagging on SP (who are also on that album).
I feel like I bought PJ Ten at the Best Buy in Mattoon. There used to be one there, right??
I think it was a Mister Music!
There was a band that I knew back around that same time, called The Immortal Winos of Soul. A Detroit band that could have been big, but never got past their own personal pursuits. Not for the same, self-destructive ways as Pavement, but because they each wanted something different. Still, a bunch of good guys.
I think I'm going to check these guys out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFDj6ARffIo