Thanks, Will, for these thoughts on AI -- it's exactly the way I think about writing, and despair of convincing my students this fall when I teach first year writing. I thought this lovely piece complements yours well: https://internetprincess.substack.com/p/choosing-to-walk
Congratulations, Will, on the release of Lloyd. Walking down to the local bookstore--which happens to be a 10-minute walk from the fairest place on Earth, Wrigley Field--today to buy it.
Agree 100 on the role of AI in higher ed, particularly the paragraph that ends "...I am not sure the fault is entirely theirs".
Respectfully resisting the urge to caption the freeze-frame of Mika. Best of luck with the book! Have a great weekend!
The Jonathan V quote is shockingly cynical about education. I’ve never assigned a problem or project to keep students busy. Although most of my assignments consist of math problems, those math problems foster thinking and application; they twist around ideas and shuffle old ones to the surface to be applied in new ways.
The student who uses one of many clunky (though effective) apps to generate or copy down solutions—which is a lot of them—misunderstands the task. It was never about putting lead to paper. It was about offering gym equipment to work out on. Many think they’ve beaten the system, but their all-nighter steroids the night before the test might give a short boost but they shrivel in the weeks and months that follow.
I appreciate your counter. I didn’t expect to read educational philosophy here, but I’m thrilled that you’ve vocalized some great stuff about a fundamental misconception that teachers face and talk about constantly.
And now back to reading Lloyd McNeil’s Last Ride! (I’m on page 86 👍)
I was pretty surprised by JVL's take: I usually do not find him cynical at all. Appropriately skeptical, sure. But that's not what thinking and learning is supposed to be about at all.
I supervised undergrads last year and hated when they used AI to write basic emails. But it comes down to a fundamental fear of being wrong, messing up, offending me somehow, etc. I hate it bc I want to hear from THEM, not bland ChatGPT.
But it's the same with the essays. So many of them have had it drilled into them that you have to get As so there is a lot of fear that they'll get bad grades. The idea of the gentleman's C is basically dead. It's tough out there.
Yes! Fear and shame are important operators here. We talked about this in our department meetings (I work in a humanities department) and our colleagues who were parents talked about the bullying kids are on the ends of - in this context, in online communities of social media and gaming - that there’s no meaningful break for them between the places they are belittled online and those they are belittled IRL. It was eye opening for us and helped to get some of the onion of this problem peeled back.
The other problem I find is that students do not understand that thinking and independent inquiry are worth anything - literally. In the world ruled by memes, social media trends, and other forms of viral circulation, the idea that having an individual thought or series of these is discontinuous with their dreams of filthy lucre. Trying to reorient ideas of learned worthlessness around thinking, reading, and communicating is really quite difficult.
In an academic setting, if the class or school rules state that you are not to use Tool X on your tests or assignments and, in spite of attesting that you know and understand these rules, you use Tool X anyway, you’ve cheated. This is fundamentally no different from inflating your GPA on your job application, claiming to work somewhere that you never did, or, say, underreporting your income to lower your taxes, grossly inflating the value of your real estate holdings to get favorable loan terms, claiming you have bone spurs and would otherwise have loved to serve in Viet Nam, etc.
There are people who think the ends (their own success and enrichment) justify any means. And there are people who were brought up and strive to be honorable people. This is a struggle as old as time and as long as people can rationalize to themselves that it’s ok to cheat because honor is for suckers and losers, this will just spring up again in new form in the future.
Speaking of Roger Ebert, and of AI, his old newspaper was one of many this week that published an AI-generated summer reading list that consisted almost entirely of nonexistent books. I don't have anything constructive to say about AI and students, but every time I read about an AI embarrassment like this, I grin from ear to ear.
Thanks for this, Will. Terrific piece. Hope you enjoyed my attempt to convey your intent to audio. I had a blast recording it.
BTW, I just finished narrating Unknown Man #89 by Elmore Leonard (also for Harper) and booked a recur on a New England-based Apple TV show coming out next year.
It's been a good little run for a 25+ year struggling actor!
FYI: I know you have Left Bank Books on your book tour. The CWE neighborhood was hit by a tornado last week; I walked in the other day and they are okay. I got a mail from them saying that the roof of their building was damaged, but since they aren't on the top floor it doesn't affect them directly.
It is bizarre walking around the neighborhood, though. Most of the houses are fine but the trees were just violently ripped out of the ground.
Appreciate these thoughts on education and AI. We quantify so many things in our culture; grades are just one. The very act of ranking and scoring increases the value of the product (a grade) at the expense of the process (learning.) This is something I think about a lot, as a parent and informal educator.
I sort of accidentally ended up at a college where there were no grades. (New College of Florida, RIP) I came from a very traditional, grade- and success-oriented high school. The work at NC was hard and beautiful. No course requirements; you could make up classes if you could find a sponsor. I learned how to *think*, how to see patterns and pro-actively learn anything. I wish college could be like that for everyone. I’m thankful everyday for that experience. It changed what I’m capable of. Also, we had papers every week for every class and longer ones for final projects. lol
Hi Will, I wanted to let you know that I preordered the book weeks ago, but I still haven't received it from Amazon. I'll take it up with them when I have time.
I really wanted to come hear you speak at the library, but wasn't feeling well the other night. I sent a little posse of my book club to hear you, and they can't wait to read Lloyd's story. The books they ordered arrived yesterday, so I went ahead and ordered another copy. Should be here before we leave for a beach trip.
Hope to meet you one of these days... we have a mutual friend, so it could happen.
Yes, I feel similarly about that article in that the main character seems to be the type of person who would cheat themself of the opportunity to learn in any context. The tool is what changed so in this context it's AI, but in an earlier era they would use whatever tool was available to cheat then, too. The more concerning bit with that piece was the people who felt to me like they were baseball players in the steroid era in that their excuse is more or less everyone else is doing it and I'm falling behind if I don't (while putting in more hours to produce a potentially lesser product). That seemed to be a similar sentiment many users of steroids felt. And as we saw, until the Mitchell report, it snowballed and magnified the problem.
I think this is exactly right. Some people don't see the world as anything other than an opportunity to just get their immediate, blinkered gains at any cost. Including to themselves.
Thanks, Will, for these thoughts on AI -- it's exactly the way I think about writing, and despair of convincing my students this fall when I teach first year writing. I thought this lovely piece complements yours well: https://internetprincess.substack.com/p/choosing-to-walk
Congratulations, Will, on the release of Lloyd. Walking down to the local bookstore--which happens to be a 10-minute walk from the fairest place on Earth, Wrigley Field--today to buy it.
Agree 100 on the role of AI in higher ed, particularly the paragraph that ends "...I am not sure the fault is entirely theirs".
Respectfully resisting the urge to caption the freeze-frame of Mika. Best of luck with the book! Have a great weekend!
Even as someone who is aware of the Cubs Global Menace, I can't not be charmed by buying the book 10 minutes from Wrigley. I hope you like it!
Looking forward to it. Chapters 1-2 so far. I love the tone and voice of Lloyd, love the choice for how you lead off your story.
The Cards are annoyingly better than they should be so far!
The Jonathan V quote is shockingly cynical about education. I’ve never assigned a problem or project to keep students busy. Although most of my assignments consist of math problems, those math problems foster thinking and application; they twist around ideas and shuffle old ones to the surface to be applied in new ways.
The student who uses one of many clunky (though effective) apps to generate or copy down solutions—which is a lot of them—misunderstands the task. It was never about putting lead to paper. It was about offering gym equipment to work out on. Many think they’ve beaten the system, but their all-nighter steroids the night before the test might give a short boost but they shrivel in the weeks and months that follow.
I appreciate your counter. I didn’t expect to read educational philosophy here, but I’m thrilled that you’ve vocalized some great stuff about a fundamental misconception that teachers face and talk about constantly.
And now back to reading Lloyd McNeil’s Last Ride! (I’m on page 86 👍)
I was pretty surprised by JVL's take: I usually do not find him cynical at all. Appropriately skeptical, sure. But that's not what thinking and learning is supposed to be about at all.
I supervised undergrads last year and hated when they used AI to write basic emails. But it comes down to a fundamental fear of being wrong, messing up, offending me somehow, etc. I hate it bc I want to hear from THEM, not bland ChatGPT.
But it's the same with the essays. So many of them have had it drilled into them that you have to get As so there is a lot of fear that they'll get bad grades. The idea of the gentleman's C is basically dead. It's tough out there.
Yes! Fear and shame are important operators here. We talked about this in our department meetings (I work in a humanities department) and our colleagues who were parents talked about the bullying kids are on the ends of - in this context, in online communities of social media and gaming - that there’s no meaningful break for them between the places they are belittled online and those they are belittled IRL. It was eye opening for us and helped to get some of the onion of this problem peeled back.
The other problem I find is that students do not understand that thinking and independent inquiry are worth anything - literally. In the world ruled by memes, social media trends, and other forms of viral circulation, the idea that having an individual thought or series of these is discontinuous with their dreams of filthy lucre. Trying to reorient ideas of learned worthlessness around thinking, reading, and communicating is really quite difficult.
These were enlightening ... and pretty depressing comments.
In an academic setting, if the class or school rules state that you are not to use Tool X on your tests or assignments and, in spite of attesting that you know and understand these rules, you use Tool X anyway, you’ve cheated. This is fundamentally no different from inflating your GPA on your job application, claiming to work somewhere that you never did, or, say, underreporting your income to lower your taxes, grossly inflating the value of your real estate holdings to get favorable loan terms, claiming you have bone spurs and would otherwise have loved to serve in Viet Nam, etc.
There are people who think the ends (their own success and enrichment) justify any means. And there are people who were brought up and strive to be honorable people. This is a struggle as old as time and as long as people can rationalize to themselves that it’s ok to cheat because honor is for suckers and losers, this will just spring up again in new form in the future.
Speaking of Roger Ebert, and of AI, his old newspaper was one of many this week that published an AI-generated summer reading list that consisted almost entirely of nonexistent books. I don't have anything constructive to say about AI and students, but every time I read about an AI embarrassment like this, I grin from ear to ear.
Yeah, I found myself wondering how he would have responded to that. (Though I assume he would have left the paper years ago.)
Thanks for this, Will. Terrific piece. Hope you enjoyed my attempt to convey your intent to audio. I had a blast recording it.
BTW, I just finished narrating Unknown Man #89 by Elmore Leonard (also for Harper) and booked a recur on a New England-based Apple TV show coming out next year.
It's been a good little run for a 25+ year struggling actor!
FYI: I know you have Left Bank Books on your book tour. The CWE neighborhood was hit by a tornado last week; I walked in the other day and they are okay. I got a mail from them saying that the roof of their building was damaged, but since they aren't on the top floor it doesn't affect them directly.
It is bizarre walking around the neighborhood, though. Most of the houses are fine but the trees were just violently ripped out of the ground.
Appreciate these thoughts on education and AI. We quantify so many things in our culture; grades are just one. The very act of ranking and scoring increases the value of the product (a grade) at the expense of the process (learning.) This is something I think about a lot, as a parent and informal educator.
I sort of accidentally ended up at a college where there were no grades. (New College of Florida, RIP) I came from a very traditional, grade- and success-oriented high school. The work at NC was hard and beautiful. No course requirements; you could make up classes if you could find a sponsor. I learned how to *think*, how to see patterns and pro-actively learn anything. I wish college could be like that for everyone. I’m thankful everyday for that experience. It changed what I’m capable of. Also, we had papers every week for every class and longer ones for final projects. lol
Finished “Lloyd” about 45 minutes ago. Marvelous book. Congrats!
Congratulations on "Lloyd" releasing! I got my copy the other day and started it today.
"to prove you have thought about what you’re supposed to be learning."
As a middle school English teacher, let me say . . . YES! Thank you.
Also: Since you are a middle school English teacher ... thank YOU. Goodness that has to be a tough, but rewarding, job.
Hi Will, I wanted to let you know that I preordered the book weeks ago, but I still haven't received it from Amazon. I'll take it up with them when I have time.
I really wanted to come hear you speak at the library, but wasn't feeling well the other night. I sent a little posse of my book club to hear you, and they can't wait to read Lloyd's story. The books they ordered arrived yesterday, so I went ahead and ordered another copy. Should be here before we leave for a beach trip.
Hope to meet you one of these days... we have a mutual friend, so it could happen.
Thanks for being you and 'telling it true.'
Strange! I might double check: I think Amazon works pretty hard to get pre-orders the day of release.
Another way to support the book-request it from your local library. If they don’t own it (mine has several copies 👍) they will purchase it.
100 percent! (Libraries are the best.)
Yes, I feel similarly about that article in that the main character seems to be the type of person who would cheat themself of the opportunity to learn in any context. The tool is what changed so in this context it's AI, but in an earlier era they would use whatever tool was available to cheat then, too. The more concerning bit with that piece was the people who felt to me like they were baseball players in the steroid era in that their excuse is more or less everyone else is doing it and I'm falling behind if I don't (while putting in more hours to produce a potentially lesser product). That seemed to be a similar sentiment many users of steroids felt. And as we saw, until the Mitchell report, it snowballed and magnified the problem.
I think this is exactly right. Some people don't see the world as anything other than an opportunity to just get their immediate, blinkered gains at any cost. Including to themselves.