Will, I’ve worked with young adults as an Army recruiter and a college advisor. I have made it my goal with every interaction to make the student say what they want to do. This generation has been a tough nut to crack but I feel (like you) that they are going to lose that tether to their parents and be lost. Then I have an encounter with a strong, smart independent young person and my faith in them is restored. It sounds like you and your wife are doing a great job in the toughest era for parenting.
I think you and your wife are doing a great job as parents. Being a parent is tough. We’re human and we make mistakes and miss things, but, being involved , that’s the answer. I was not a perfect parent but I always cared and I supported my daughter in every way I could. And lots of what interested her scared me to death. I’m a city person. I do love a hike in the woods but then I want a cozy place to sleep and a good meal. My daughter has hiked both the Pacific Crest Trail and the Appalachian Trail. She worked in Hell’s Canyon Oregon one summer at 17. She lived and worked in Yosemite National Park. I visited her often when she worked there. I never said no to what she wanted to do but did make sure, I thought, that she was in good hands. But once, I made a mistake. She asked me one day if she could go white water canoeing on the Youghiogheny River. She was 16 at the time and a good swimmer. Another thing I made sure she learned to do because I don’t know how to swim. I was not happy about that but was assured it would be fine. It wasn’t. The river was running too high. She got tossed out of the canoe and trapped under water under a rock. It took three men to pull her out. I was sitting on our deck reading a book when she got home. She was black and blue, all cut up and with stitches on her forehead. And she was crying. She does not cry easily. I asked what happened. She told me all the scary details and finished by saying, “you know, Mom, you can say “no” sometimes “. She could have died. I screwed up that time. I’ve never forgotten that but she is the courageous, adventurous person she is because of all the times I said yes.
Don't be too hard on yourself. Most canoeing trips are not like that one. The people handling that trip failed all of the people that they took when the river was too high. It's not like parents have crystal balls.
Man, I have teared up at some of Will's writing before, but this is the first time I've teared up at a comment. Well said. My kids are 13, 11 (as of yesterday!), and 5. The only one who sounds like your daughter is the 5 year old and after getting reverse-parent-trained by the first two easier kids, I think my wife and I are going to have to take your story to heart as we parent the little one...
The analogy I always use when it comes to raising a kid is that it's like setting up a character on a video game. You can't just slide all the power levels to max; you have to sacrifice speed for strength, etc. I think my wife and I have excelled as parents in some areas. We spend a lot of time with our two grown children, we talk all the time about nearly every subject imaginable, we laugh together a lot. We are not strangers to them, and I don't think they're strangers to us. The trade-off is that we were never that strict or authoritarian with them, and honestly, in retrospect, there were probably times when it might've been better if we put the fear of god into them and kicked them in the butt a little (metaphorically).
As for the sandwich thing... that really does seem to be generational. Our kids always hated ordering for themselves at restaurants for some reason. That was one area where I did get a little fed up and just started making them do it. My other strong parenting moment, when they were teens: Over the summer when then they were out of school I gave them a grocery allowance and told them they'd have to buy and prepare their own food for lunch. I'm proud of that one, especially as our youngest has become a skilled home cook, whipping up nice meals in their college apartment all the time.
I do think the sandwich thing is definitely generational. And I'm not even sure we're right by pushing them so much to be able to do it. I mean, who knows any of it?
It can be difficult to balance protection and insistence when it comes to parenting. Me and my wife have one hardcore extrovert and one hardcore introvert. The introvert is 18 and about to start college. They also have pretty serious social anxiety. I try to find a sweet spot in the middle between not overwhelming them and having them practice doing the interaction-focused tasks that they will have no choice but to do for themselves really soon now. In the modern world, it’s a lot easier to get away with not talking to people a lot of the time. You don’t have to practice ordering in a restaurant if you can order so much of the stuff you want on an app and just pick it up. But you still have to talk to people, especially at college and in the workplace, and it can be a learned skill like so many other things.
Good luck with your sons and middle school! That’s a tumultuous time, but it sounds like you and your wife will have them well prepared and supported
Hey Will, I’m a big fan. One thing that struck me when I was reading this essay is that the interaction with the teen girl and her mom sounds a lot like interactions with my own son who is on the autism spectrum. Maybe something to consider in the future before passing judgement on others.
Thank you, Daniel. I appreciated the kindness of your comment.
Will, I was so disappointed in this post. It is cruel and judgmental and I had thought you were better than that. You have no idea what was going on in that young woman’s life. No idea if she had experienced trauma or disease or catastrophe. What is the point of belittling her mother other than to pat yourself on the back? Isn’t the world nasty enough as it is?
Worst of all, your son knows who these people are. And you published this for all to see. Shame on you.
I'm appreciative of this comment, both yours and Daniel's. I tried to allot, in the post, both for not knowing their story and not really knowing whether anything that I'm doing is working or is making any sort of difference anyway. But I certainly can't, and wouldn't, argue with anyone who found the anecdote I was using to illustrate the larger point unfair to the girl or her mom, however much I may have been trying (potentially unsuccessfully) not to do so. I don't think it's cruel and certainly tried not to paint it that way ... but that doesn't make me correct.
My daughter will turn 25 soon. We are just getting to a place where I feel like every interaction doesn't start with mistrust on one end or the other. Like you and your wife, we hoped we were doing a good job, but didn't know.
Each time we see her or talk to her makes us realize we were on the right path even if we didn't know it. We can even ask questions I thought may never be allowed - "was this weird?" or "did I screw that up?" She assures us no such trauma existed. I guess she was just a teenager trying to figure herself out.
So trust your instincts. And let him eat the sandwich in the car. :)
I read this post yesterday and had been bothered by it. I came to leave a comment this morning but read everyone’s insightful notes, stories, thoughts and, well, they did a better job than I could’ve.
Will, the scene at Bristol tonight looked quite wet and depressing. Hopefully your crew made the best of it. As a Wake Forest guy, I hated that it ruined Chase Burns’s opportunity to shine on a big stage.
Reading this reminded me the Henry Rollins clip below. The only similarity is the sandwich shop, but its kind of a lesson in empathy. Henry always has interesting takes.
My sons are almost 26. When they were 13, one was "dating" a young woman his age, but much older in may ways, the other only cared about surfing. They were quite capable of ordering sandwiches on their own and neither required my help. In fact, at 13 they were asserting their independence and couldn't wait to be adults. I see a lot of pre-teens out and about. I have yet to see one acting like that girl did.
Will, I’ve worked with young adults as an Army recruiter and a college advisor. I have made it my goal with every interaction to make the student say what they want to do. This generation has been a tough nut to crack but I feel (like you) that they are going to lose that tether to their parents and be lost. Then I have an encounter with a strong, smart independent young person and my faith in them is restored. It sounds like you and your wife are doing a great job in the toughest era for parenting.
I think you and your wife are doing a great job as parents. Being a parent is tough. We’re human and we make mistakes and miss things, but, being involved , that’s the answer. I was not a perfect parent but I always cared and I supported my daughter in every way I could. And lots of what interested her scared me to death. I’m a city person. I do love a hike in the woods but then I want a cozy place to sleep and a good meal. My daughter has hiked both the Pacific Crest Trail and the Appalachian Trail. She worked in Hell’s Canyon Oregon one summer at 17. She lived and worked in Yosemite National Park. I visited her often when she worked there. I never said no to what she wanted to do but did make sure, I thought, that she was in good hands. But once, I made a mistake. She asked me one day if she could go white water canoeing on the Youghiogheny River. She was 16 at the time and a good swimmer. Another thing I made sure she learned to do because I don’t know how to swim. I was not happy about that but was assured it would be fine. It wasn’t. The river was running too high. She got tossed out of the canoe and trapped under water under a rock. It took three men to pull her out. I was sitting on our deck reading a book when she got home. She was black and blue, all cut up and with stitches on her forehead. And she was crying. She does not cry easily. I asked what happened. She told me all the scary details and finished by saying, “you know, Mom, you can say “no” sometimes “. She could have died. I screwed up that time. I’ve never forgotten that but she is the courageous, adventurous person she is because of all the times I said yes.
Don't be too hard on yourself. Most canoeing trips are not like that one. The people handling that trip failed all of the people that they took when the river was too high. It's not like parents have crystal balls.
Man, I have teared up at some of Will's writing before, but this is the first time I've teared up at a comment. Well said. My kids are 13, 11 (as of yesterday!), and 5. The only one who sounds like your daughter is the 5 year old and after getting reverse-parent-trained by the first two easier kids, I think my wife and I are going to have to take your story to heart as we parent the little one...
The analogy I always use when it comes to raising a kid is that it's like setting up a character on a video game. You can't just slide all the power levels to max; you have to sacrifice speed for strength, etc. I think my wife and I have excelled as parents in some areas. We spend a lot of time with our two grown children, we talk all the time about nearly every subject imaginable, we laugh together a lot. We are not strangers to them, and I don't think they're strangers to us. The trade-off is that we were never that strict or authoritarian with them, and honestly, in retrospect, there were probably times when it might've been better if we put the fear of god into them and kicked them in the butt a little (metaphorically).
As for the sandwich thing... that really does seem to be generational. Our kids always hated ordering for themselves at restaurants for some reason. That was one area where I did get a little fed up and just started making them do it. My other strong parenting moment, when they were teens: Over the summer when then they were out of school I gave them a grocery allowance and told them they'd have to buy and prepare their own food for lunch. I'm proud of that one, especially as our youngest has become a skilled home cook, whipping up nice meals in their college apartment all the time.
I do think the sandwich thing is definitely generational. And I'm not even sure we're right by pushing them so much to be able to do it. I mean, who knows any of it?
It can be difficult to balance protection and insistence when it comes to parenting. Me and my wife have one hardcore extrovert and one hardcore introvert. The introvert is 18 and about to start college. They also have pretty serious social anxiety. I try to find a sweet spot in the middle between not overwhelming them and having them practice doing the interaction-focused tasks that they will have no choice but to do for themselves really soon now. In the modern world, it’s a lot easier to get away with not talking to people a lot of the time. You don’t have to practice ordering in a restaurant if you can order so much of the stuff you want on an app and just pick it up. But you still have to talk to people, especially at college and in the workplace, and it can be a learned skill like so many other things.
Good luck with your sons and middle school! That’s a tumultuous time, but it sounds like you and your wife will have them well prepared and supported
Hey Will, I’m a big fan. One thing that struck me when I was reading this essay is that the interaction with the teen girl and her mom sounds a lot like interactions with my own son who is on the autism spectrum. Maybe something to consider in the future before passing judgement on others.
Thank you, Daniel. I appreciated the kindness of your comment.
Will, I was so disappointed in this post. It is cruel and judgmental and I had thought you were better than that. You have no idea what was going on in that young woman’s life. No idea if she had experienced trauma or disease or catastrophe. What is the point of belittling her mother other than to pat yourself on the back? Isn’t the world nasty enough as it is?
Worst of all, your son knows who these people are. And you published this for all to see. Shame on you.
I'm appreciative of this comment, both yours and Daniel's. I tried to allot, in the post, both for not knowing their story and not really knowing whether anything that I'm doing is working or is making any sort of difference anyway. But I certainly can't, and wouldn't, argue with anyone who found the anecdote I was using to illustrate the larger point unfair to the girl or her mom, however much I may have been trying (potentially unsuccessfully) not to do so. I don't think it's cruel and certainly tried not to paint it that way ... but that doesn't make me correct.
Will was questioning what he was seeing and wondering if it is common. You're very critical yourself.
I thought the comment wasn't just fair, it was needed.
My daughter will turn 25 soon. We are just getting to a place where I feel like every interaction doesn't start with mistrust on one end or the other. Like you and your wife, we hoped we were doing a good job, but didn't know.
Each time we see her or talk to her makes us realize we were on the right path even if we didn't know it. We can even ask questions I thought may never be allowed - "was this weird?" or "did I screw that up?" She assures us no such trauma existed. I guess she was just a teenager trying to figure herself out.
So trust your instincts. And let him eat the sandwich in the car. :)
I think a lot Gen Z kids have trouble making decisions that aren't mediated through a screen.
I read this post yesterday and had been bothered by it. I came to leave a comment this morning but read everyone’s insightful notes, stories, thoughts and, well, they did a better job than I could’ve.
Holy crap y’all covered a Juzo Itami film! Lemme go download this stat!
Will, the scene at Bristol tonight looked quite wet and depressing. Hopefully your crew made the best of it. As a Wake Forest guy, I hated that it ruined Chase Burns’s opportunity to shine on a big stage.
I'll be back there at 1 p.m. tomorrow!
Reading this reminded me the Henry Rollins clip below. The only similarity is the sandwich shop, but its kind of a lesson in empathy. Henry always has interesting takes.
https://youtu.be/RtqeCWI-0Jg?feature=shared
My sons are almost 26. When they were 13, one was "dating" a young woman his age, but much older in may ways, the other only cared about surfing. They were quite capable of ordering sandwiches on their own and neither required my help. In fact, at 13 they were asserting their independence and couldn't wait to be adults. I see a lot of pre-teens out and about. I have yet to see one acting like that girl did.
I didn’t think that there was anyone left at WAPO